Free Career and Job Search Advice

Randy · Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject:

Thanks, deb!

For what it's worth, I've been in contact with a publisher and within the next few months I'm having a book published about my little adventures in these matters. After 50 employers--and starting #51 tomorrow--all I know is there's the "conventional wisdom" and then there's "reality" of the thing. And the two are almost diametrically opposed.

I do know this: This whole notion that we're expected to grovel and worship at the feet of corporations and business has to stop, period. It would do well if people remembered that the prospector needed the pack mule far more than the other way around.

In short, I have no problem with working for a living, with being an "employee," but damn it! I am fed up to my eyeballs with being called a "human resource" when it's clear that my "humanity" comes in a far distant second place to my worth as a "resource."

But then these employers still expect ME to treat them courtesy and respect, to be "ethical" and truthful? I don't think so....

Workplace attitudes always, always, always start at the top and if corporate America and employers anywhere and everywhere don't like the situation, aren't pleased with the caliber of their employees, aren't happy with the quantity and quality of work? News flash: Take a look in the mirror. THERE'S the problem because it ain't us!

Debstwocats · Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: Bad reference

Randy

There is so much truth in what you have written. I agree with your comments wholeheartedly.

I will NOT stay in a position if I am not treated with some respect at least and have on a few occasions "walked" from the position.

I went for my interview today and low and behold I am actually an asset to the Employer Laughing

Because i know the people on the other side that is funding their project. Of course if I am treated fairly I will treat my Employers with the same respect but not all Employers are like that and treat their staff as cattle.

It is NOT on and it should be stopped but our Government is less than useless so it is up to the people (as usual) to bring it to the media attention and see what happens.

I have already written to my MP about the way Employers carry on - still yet to hear Hmmmm

Anway Randy good luck with the book. I hope it works out well for you.
xx

cukababy · Newbie Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 3 Career Advice: +0/-0

Thanks, I appreciate all the advice. I suppose my question at this point, though, is how do I get an employer to give me another chance? I seems that once they realize that I've had more than employer in teh past year and that I was fired from a job, they've already made up their minds. In fact, as much was actually said to me when I asked why I had been turned down.

Debstwocats · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: Bad Reference

This is what the site says Cukababy:

Is it necessary to show you were fired in your CV

To answer this question bluntly, 'NO'. You really do need or owe it to anyone to own up information that you were fired from your last job. That is do not volunteer it. There are no rules that require you to write the reasons for leaving your last employment; it is usually understood that this people leave for better prospects.

However, some companies do have a column asking 'reasons for leaving previous job'. When you are faced with the direct question, tell the truth.

Scenario no 1: You were fired because the company was downsizing. Write the truth - downsizing means people will lose their jobs and it is not necessarily because they were not worth it, but because they were more expendable than others. Be matter of fact when you say this, and keep the bitterness and sarcasm out of your language. End with maturity and show confidence that your skills and experience will add value to the future job

Scenario 2: You were fired because of inter-personal conflict, you could explain the facts briefly - again, without any bitterness - that your boss and yourself did not agree on certain matters which made it difficult for you to continue. Be objective, and matter-of-fact explaining that the experience taught you better interpersonal relations and that in future you would handle such a situation differently.
Scenario 3 - You were fired on grounds of negligence/ poor performance/ insubordination, etc. This is a very touchy situation, because most of the employers would ask for feedback from the last employer. Hence, you need to tell the truth and use the opportunity to tell 'your side of the story'. In order to make it as positive as possible, indicate the circumstances (such as difficult task or deadlines while multitasking; or communication gaps; or wrong reporting of facts by supervisor, etc) and be as matter of fact and brief as you can. Avoid the sordid details - just touch the important points and in the end highlight that you have learnt a lot from the lesson which has already cost you dearly, and that it made you a better person and employee as a consequence. Be candid and objective. Never badmouth anyone nor blame anyone. Show a positive outlook and the capacity to move on in the face of adversity.
Being fired is painful and it is even more painful to have to write or speak about it. However, no matter how much you are tempted you should abstain from telling lies. The employer will, 9 out 10, ask the last employer for some type of reference. You should not be found lying as it destroys the foundation of the working relationship. Rather be brave and face the situation squarely. As long as you stay focused on the future and show that you have learnt from the past experience, an employer would rather take your past experience as strength rather than weakness. When asked about the same in an interview, be careful about your body language - as many times the body language gives you away much faster that the words you speak.

I would ask a person other than the people you worked for, for a reference, a Former Tutor, Priest, if you have one, your Doctor if he has known you for a long time, and anyone in a good position who can vouch for your character and build on that. It is best to get someone who has a position in the community to get a reference from rather than just a friend.

Try and get a few references together, from various people and then you can use this as a way of saying to your next employer "They got it wrong about me!"

Everyone deserves another chance - I hope you get your 2nd chance Cukababy.

Let me know how you are getting on ok! Good Luck!!

salman · Newbie Joined: 07 Jun 2007 Posts: 1 Career Advice: +0/-0

Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

Debstwocats · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Hi again

If i can help I will that's for sure.

Just pm me with details of what you would like help with and I will see what I can do for you.

EmilBarnabas · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject:

It may be different where you are, but here former employers will usually verify that you were employed, give employment start and end dates, job description, and final salary. That’s all!

If your former employer's bad reference is anything but verifiable facts, then hire a lawyer to sue him/her. A former employer has no right to keep you from getting employed.

Debstwocats · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: Hi

I agree with you totally Barnabas. What gives an employer the right to stop someone from working?

I was informed that NO employer could give you a bad reference. I have walked out of jobs before now but always got jobs.
Probably the secret is to get a few references from various sources, i.e. tutor from school, tutor from a course you have done previously, your doctor (although I think they will charge you for the priviledge) or someone in authority if you know someone.
Use these references to get on.
Say to your next employer that you had a difference of opinion and leave it at that. If they get in touch wioth your last employer and they give a bad reference you still have other references to show.
Usually the references will only be sought if you pass the interview stage so you have a good chance of prooving yourself in the interview.

I hope this info helps Salman you are welcome to PM if you think I can help you further.

Katja144 · Expert Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 177 Career Advice: +2/-0

Employers can legally say anything they want about you as long as they believe it's the truth. And of course they're going to say that whatever they're saying is what they believe the truth is! When it comes to facts, you can trip them up, but when it comes to opinion, they can say anything--all they have to do is insist they truly believe you were unprofessional/insubordinate/whatever and how are you going to prove you were not?

I've dealt with this. I had a truly awful boss one summer...awful. We're talking irresponsible, for one-- was never there to deal with customers and their problems (and then when customers would call angry about something SHE did or didn't do, and inevitably she wasn't there so we'd take a message, then she'd hand our message back to us and say "call this person, will you?" Uh, no! They wanted to talk to YOU!)...irresponsible in that the office manager had to tell me more than once "cash your paycheck NOW; she just got her nails done/got new tires for her van/whatever and I don't know how long there's going to be money for the paychecks"... irresponsible in that more than once while I was closing I discovered that the till was off and didn't know why--only to find out later she'd taken money out and not told me! Once this resulted in me being there until 10:00 at night, missing my bus, and having to walk home several miles in the dark because she wasn't there and I couldn't reach her to find out why the till was off by $100 (of course I didn't want to be held responsible for it so I wasn't about to leave!)! And she barely apologized the next day! ...the straw that broke the camel's back was when at our employee meeting, my three coworkers and I brought up some concerns we had--and I mean, we're talking about safety and customer service concerns, not "we don't like the uniforms" or some crap--and she got MAD. Within about a month, three of us had quit and the office manager got fired (the boss decided she was the "ringleader"). The woman has a reputation in my town in some circles, so I've heard. She has lost multiple customers (when the business name changed because the franchise changed, there were people who came in thinking the store was under new ownership and upon finding out it wasn't, walked right back out saying they would not patronize the business while she owned it).

I could've just called it a learning experience until a recent boss pulled me aside one day and said "look, I shouldn't be telling you this, but I feel you deserve to know. [Name of former boss] is telling people not to hire you and I'm sure you've probably missed out on some jobs because of it." He had dealt with this woman in the past and so knew what she was like and knew not to believe her, luckily. With others I am sure I was not so lucky (especially when applying outside of my hometown). He did not tell me exactly what reasons she gave, if any, but I'm sure she has me down in her book as a troublemaker and possibly several lies as well (I also wouldn't put it past her to actually forget I worked for her and tell a prospective employer that I never worked there--she also was terribly forgetful, which was another part of her problem with bad customer service).

I haven't a clue what to do if I'm ever asked about this. I know you're not supposed to badmouth a former boss, but I have SO many shocking stories that would clearly illustrate that SHE was the problem, not ME! And I simply cannot think of a nice way to explain why she would give me a bad reference, and I absolutely REFUSE to put the blame on myself. (when asked why I left the job on applications, I say I left to take another job, which is the truth)

Luckily I've never been asked, and have since built up a few GOOD references to stand on...

Debstwocats · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: Hi

Hi Kaja

In the UK it is against the law to give out a bad reference. If the person has left under a bad cloud then they usually dont get asked by the employee for a reference, BUT if the employer is approached by another employer and they give a bad reference it is against the law because they are stopping someone from getting a job.

Everyone deserves a second chance. I am working with ex offenders and they are really enthusiastic and approachable men who want to make a change for the better in their lives. I have got two of them interviews by arguing with the prospective employer that people like them deserve a chance and shaming them into submission.

I am hoping it is good news for both of them when I get into work and they will tell me that they have been hired.
If someone has been a pain in the backside at work and got dismissed then it is unlikely that they will get a reference so the employer will not be approached.

References if you can get them can only help you further your career and I always say to any trainee try and get a reference from a tutor if you are doing a course for a few weeks as they can give you a character reference or your doctor if you have been with them for a while could give you a reference. You should all have a school reference.

Anyway good luck to everyone in their search and hope the advice helps.

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