Free Career and Job Search Advice

jobforumuser · Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: how to handle this situation???

Hi,

I have recently graduated from college. My major was Computer Science. I graduated in May 2006. I have been trying to get job an "entry level job in my major". But I have not been getting any jobs!! But I really need a job immediately to pay my bills. So would it be a good idea to accept a full time job (there are no temp jobs here right now!) in a field not at all related to my major and quit the job like in say 2 months if I get the job I'm looking for? Would that affect my job history? Would that put a bad remark on my attitude? But I desperately need money! I have 20 dollars in my bank account left! Could somebody please give me some advice on how to handle this situation ( and get some money!) Crying or Very sad

Randy

[quote="jobforumuser"]

I have been trying to get "real jobs" that don't pay the regular $6/8 / hr. ( I mean that's the purpose of a degree right?)

First, I'm gonna blast you really hard, then be really nice, okay?

There's a whole great big bunch of "blue-collar" folks like me who've worked our asses off our entire lifetimes at those not "real jobs" you're talking about. You've displayed the patronizing and condescending arrogance that makes people like me hate to see people like you walking through the door.

In short, get over yourself.

1. Having a degree makes you absolutely no better than the trash collector or plumber or any of these other "lesser mortals."
2. Having a degree--contrary to whatever in the hell it is they teach you in college--does not make you the least bit more intelligent than the rest of us. You've bought the lie that "education" is the same as "intelligence" and unless and until you learn the difference between the two, you're pretty well screwed for life.
3. Your "college education" is, when all is said and done, exactly no more and no less than the advanced "vocational training" taken by many blue-collar types, such as electrician and so forth.

BUT

You are indeed fortunate and have already learned and realized so very much about the "real" world:

How in the hell does this country expect people--ordinary folks who either simply chose not to go to college (or lacked the opportunity to do so)--how in the hell is anyone expected to even "get by" on the money you're talking about which is, tragically, pretty much normal for the jobs you're talking about?

Yeah, we all want that chap to come by and pick up our garbage every week, right? But, to hell with him! HE didn't go to college so he "deserves" to make only $8.00/hour. THAT will teach him, right?

Bottom line? Corporate America sucks, big-time!

Now, time to be nice!

But I have not been getting any jobs!!

Right. That's why, every chance I have, I scream my personal mantra of "corporate America sucks!"

You, whether you've been told so or not, YOU are what "they" call "overqualified."

In short, you've met the enemy and the enemy is YOU!

"They" are judging YOU exactly the same way as you began your post. Only in this case, it's a backhanded insult. From THEIR point of view, the thinking and reasoning goes this way:

"Why in the world would anyone with THOSE credentials want to flip hamburgers? Why, there's no way in hell that person is going to stay with us very long so don't even bother hiring 'em....."

You see, "they" don't give one rat's ass about whether you CAN and WILL actually DO the work for which you're applying. It's all about the "ideal candidate" creature for whom all employers seek. So the "ideal candidate" for those $6-8.00/hr jobs have NO college, no dreams, no ambitions, right?

AND YET--

Those SAME folks are told over and over and over that THEY, too, MUST follow the SAME rules regarding the "hiring process" as, well, as YOU. I.E., their "resumes" must be PERFECT, free from spelling and errors in grammar (I could write a damned book about the abuse of the English language I've seen on job applications--hypocritical bastards!), and all the rest. In short, they want to hire the APPEARANCE of "college types" and DEMAND the same "perfection," yet do so at $6.00/hr.

Put another way: THEY are the ones who are presuming to tell YOU that THEY know what's best for YOU! From THEIR point of view, YOU haven't the INTELLIGENCE to decide that you are indeed most willing, able, and ready to work for them--I mean, really work for them, be a good, honest, hard-working, dependable employee--at that sorry-assed pay even though it might be for only a few months.

In short, they'd rather NOT have a really damned fine employee--exactly the type YOU would be--for a short time, choosing instead to wait on someone lacking your credentials. The reason is crystal clear: YOU have "options," choices. The other folks--like me, at least from their point of view--don't have those luxuries and because of that, they think, believe, and try with all their might to practice the notion that they therefore "own" us, that we can and will take whatever crap they care to dish out simply for the sake of having that "job."

See why I'm looking for job #51?

But I really need a job immediately to pay my bills. So would it be a good idea to accept a full time $6/8 job (there are no temp jobs here right now!) and quit the job like in say 2 months if I get the "real job" I'm looking for?

You bet your ass! That's exactly what you SHOULD do!

Listen: "Working" is a BUSINESS arrangment. (The only "dirty" word in my entired vocabulary is "business." Makes me wanna puke every time I say it or write it.) THEY will toss you out in a New York minute for any reason or none at all, not blink an eye, and dismiss it with that cavalier "nothing personal, just doing my job."

You "owe" an employer absolutely NOTHING other than the best work you can perform. After that, to hell with them!

Get this! You work for YOU, period, end of discussion. You may very well indeed go TO your employer's and do "stuff" to earn money. But YOU work for YOU first, employer a very, very distant second.

Or turn it around:

Do "they" not refer to you and me as "human resources"?

I'm happy for you because you're already seeing that, from their point of view, your "humanity" comes in a far distant second to your role as a "resource." That double-edge sword cuts both way and coporate America--despite all their college degrees and erudition--still doesn't get it!

Now you tell me who the really "uneducated" ones are?

Would that affect my job history?

Yes and no. Depends upon how well you can lie and manipulate dates of employment and so forth. (This is really very easy. Any average blue-collar type has a Black Belt in such things. Everything we know about lying to employers we learned from them!)

Would that put a bad remark on my attitude?

Well, only if you want to spend your life groveling at the feet of an employer. Me? I'd die first.

But I desperately need money!

Welcome to America. "In God We Trust" my ass! This country worships money and the pursuit of it and anyone who says otherwise is either lying to you, themselves, both, or more likely, selling you something.

I have 20 dollars in my bank account left!

Been there done that. Sucks, don't it?

So REMEMBER these days very well because it won't be long you'll find your "place." And all that preparation and college and everything else will, literally, pay off and money will no longer be an issue.

But NEVER, EVER forget what THIS time in your life felt like. THEN maybe you won't look down on those "less fortunate," those who ARE trying to survive on that $6.00/hr!

Could somebody please give me some advice on how to handle this situation ( and get some money!)

Sure. As you apply for these jobs that you KNOW are merely temporary stepping stones until you find what you want, or rather, think you want (stuff of another book), do NOT tell them about your college degree! I.E., when it comes to finding a job, it's very much like a police interrogation: "Everything you say can and will be used against you."

And "dumb it down." God, I don't how many times I've been asked where I went to college and when I say, "I never went to college," I get that "WTF-look." So the word here is this: Intimidate. That's what YOU do to the folks who are used to talking to guys and gals who pull up in mud-covered pickup trucks and have tattooes all over their bodies (using hyperbole here to make a point, okay?)

Listen:

Contrary to my personal and obvious anger about the entire state of "working in America," you really will do, and be, fine. Have someone who cares very much about you slap you silly to awake you to the reality that, in life, even in this country, it's not all about finding jobs, working, and making money.

This analogy:

Most folks who go out in search of "true love" never, ever find it, right? Rather, isn't it almost always the case that ture love finds THEM?

"Careers" are no different.

Remember the immortal words of Mick Jagger:

"You don't always get what you want, but sometimes...sometimes you get what you need."

You're getting what you "need": A lesson in humility. What YOU want is right around the corner. I'm betting you'll enjoy the absolute hell out of it when it comes.

Nothing but the very best to you! Very Happy

jobforumuser · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject:

Hi Randi!,

Thanks for letting me know that I've offended some people with my post. I apologize to everyone I've offended. I do not mean to "patronize and condescend" anyone or any job in any respect!

I just want to remind everybody that all my life till this day like everybody else I have ALSO been working at these not "real jobs and they are what have been paying off my bills. I would never mean to criticize or degrade those jobs.

Randy · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject:

[quote="jobforumuser"]

I apologize to everyone I've offended.

Truth is I'm probably one of the few folks who'd ever perceive offense in the things you said. And all this falls under that category of "knowing what you meant" as opposed to what/how you said it and choosing to focus on the "what" you said. So I'm the first to concede *I* have the more serious "problem," but in my own little defense, my seemingly irate reaction comes after years and years of folks who genuinely lack the understanding you so cleary have.

So I hope in turn you'll accept my apology.

But again, I am deadly serious about this: You are going to do so well in life, in terms of career and everything else as well. And as soon as you can turn on your back on those "types" of employers about whom we've been speaking, do so and never, ever look back! It will always, always be THEIR loss, not yours!

Randy · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:16 am Post subject:

I need to add this in the hopes it'll help clarify things a wee-bit:

All the anger and frustration that you correctly read in my post(s)? It's directed at the "system" in place which does breed--deliberately or not--the feelings often lurking behind the words spoken by all of us regarding this whole "career" thing. For example, it's as if college folks are "conditioned" to perceive their "careers" as having more value and worth, etc. Blue-collar folks talk about a company "GIVING" us a job. And don't we all talk about an employer GIVING us a raise? Hell with that, right? It's supposed to be something one has earned because it's sure ain't a "gift"! Yes, we "know what they mean," but it's the words they use and how they use them! And even though I've never stepped foot inside a college, it's basic English that "words mean things." And if we let "them" dictate the use/misuse of our language, then "they" will indeed literally own our souls. And that shouldn't be for sale, at any price. Time and labor, yes, but not my very spirit! Never.

In short, the whole thing has evolved just within my lifetime into a process of dehumanizing us all merely for the sake of earning money. THAT'S what makes my blood boil. And they wrapped up in a tidy little package and still offer it the "American dream." If that's their idea of a dream.....

Katja144 · Expert Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 177 Career Advice: +2/-0

There's a whole great big bunch of "blue-collar" folks like me who've worked our asses off our entire lifetimes at those not "real jobs" you're talking about. You've displayed the patronizing and condescending arrogance that makes people like me hate to see people like you walking through the door.

I think it's possible you're misunderstanding the sentiment behind such statements.

I talk like that too. Because I DID go to college to avoid those $6-8 dollar/hour jobs. I put myself almost $20 grand in debt, because all of the high school guidance counselors and articles and news stories swore up and down that when I had that magic piece of paper, I'd make $20,000 more per year than those folks who didn't have it or some sh*t like that, they swore up and down that I couldn't get a good job without a degree, etc. Well, I have the piece of paper, and I don't even make $20 grand a year, let alone $20 grand more than folks without degrees. Yeah, I'm bitter. I could've gotten a job paying this much WITHOUT a degree and without the debt. So when someone asks me? Hell, yeah, I don't want to take the jobs they told me I wouldn't have to take. It has nothing to do with being condescending. It has to do with being lied to.

"Why in the world would anyone with THOSE credentials want to flip hamburgers? Why, there's no way in hell that person is going to stay with us very long so don't even bother hiring 'em....."

Very true. I know I was turned down for at least one job because of my degree (my mom knew someone who worked there and who told her "oh, we automatically put aside resumes of anyone with a degree"). They thought I'd leave soon.

A few months later, they were advertising for that job again. Had they hired ME, I might still be there to this day. Idiots. But no, clearly the non-degree folks were willing to stick around. Good job, guys! What is the quote from Harry Potter, something along the lines of "you've applied your impressive intellect and, as usual, come to the wrong conclusion"?

What employers don't realize is that we only APPLY for jobs to flip burgers because we HAVE to. If we COULD get something better, we WOULD, so apparently we're not about to leave for a better job, now are we?

Listen: "Working" is a BUSINESS arrangment. (The only "dirty" word in my entired vocabulary is "business." Makes me wanna puke every time I say it or write it.) THEY will toss you out in a New York minute for any reason or none at all, not blink an eye, and dismiss it with that cavalier "nothing personal, just doing my job."

I've said it before in another post and I'll say it again: the only thing that would concern ME about such a situation is how it would affect how I look to future employers. Period. My company could easily replace me the next day if it wanted to. Most peoples' companies could, I imagine. So, do not worry about what it will do to THEM.

Randy · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject:

quote="Katja144"

I think it's possible you're misunderstanding the sentiment behind such statements.

No, not really. This just falls under the category of knowing what one means as oppose to the actual words that are used. And after years and years of dealing with corporate double-speak (and especially the lingering echoes of a tenth-grade English teacher who made certain I understand that "words mean things," I take things as they stand, knowing that in almost every case I'll need to come back later and apologize for sounding so harsh.

But it always serve, every time, to get agreement on the topic being discussed!

...because all of the high school guidance counselors and articles and news stories swore up and down that when I had that magic piece of paper, I'd make $20,000 more per year than those folks who didn't have it or some sh*t like that, they swore up and down that I couldn't get a good job without a degree, etc.

"To get a good job, get a good education," right?

Those BS PSA's started back when I was just a kid. By the time I was a senior in high-school (1969), none of us was still taking any of that "talk" that seriously. Hell, I never, ever once spoke to a guidance counselor!

But things have surely changed in my lifetime.

Yeah, I'm bitter.

I know, That makes two of us and the irony is that for different reasons stemming from the same cause. In my case, my experience generally counts for very little and the employers want that degrees. I've read your posts and your experience has been virtually the complete opposite.

What we share in common is this: The system bites, big-time.

Oh, you and I would be best pals, no doubt about it!

It has to do with being lied to.

Everything I know, and practice, about lying to employers I learned from those employers.

They claim they want truthful answers to questions, and maybe that's the case. But the one thing they don't want is honesty of character, plain ol' integrity. Like a cross to a vampire.

(my mom knew someone who worked there and who told her "oh, we automatically put aside resumes of anyone with a degree").

Rat-bastards!

I think few people "get" folks like you and me. I don't want to think we're "that" much different from everyone else, but it's clear to me that you and I have gotten an "insider's" look at the reality of the thing that most must never see!

I guess in this instance here's all I'm saying:

If you have no intention of hiring a college graduate, then say so, dammit! Yes, I know: Discrimination, blah blah blah

Employers ARE going to "discriminate," period. So can't we just cut the crap and leave aside all these pretenses included in "the hiring process"?

Had they hired ME, I might still be there to this day. Idiots.

I've sent out about three emails recently to places that did not hire me, then ran the same ad a few months later. I end my emails the same way you just did: Idiots.

"you've applied your impressive intellect and, as usual, come to the wrong conclusion"?

Haven't seen the movie, but what a great quote!

Like "being educated beyond one's intelligence."

You hang in there and I'll do the same and one day, sooner or later, we'll find that one employer with whom we "click." That, or we'll find a way to make it our own...

Nothing but the best to you!

Katja144 · Expert Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 177 Career Advice: +2/-0

Everything I know, and practice, about lying to employers I learned from those employers.

Me too. Like hell they want the truth. they know, and I know, that they want me to tell them all sorts of pretty stories that aren't true. Though I admit that after a while I started wishing I could just be truthful.

You hang in there and I'll do the same and one day, sooner or later, we'll find that one employer with whom we "click."

Wellllll....I did that, this summer. He was impressed from the minute I handed him my resume. Impressed from the first day he saw the work I did. Only potential employer who truly saw what I was capable of and believed in it and was rewarded for that.

Unfortunately it was a new business that failed, and even at the time they hadn't been able to afford me more than part-time or for very much money. Fortunately, I'm now dating him. Hey, the boy's no fool and neither am I. Smile

My current boss really isn't bad. One of my coworkers remarked the other day, when we were in a training session where the ice breaker asked us to state something unusual about ourselves, "well, you get along with B---..."

Randy · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:14 am Post subject:

quote="Katja144"

Fortunately, I'm now dating him. Hey, the boy's no fool and neither am I. Smile

What a kick-ass story! Congratulations!

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